Curse

Arkantos · May 12, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

yeah /roll sure took a lot of skill to farm them coins

Sorry, let me rephrase.

PvP (excluding HB, unless you're playing against decent people) takes more time and effort than PvE.

Really, people need to stop crying about it being unfair that PvP gets better rewards than PvE. And no, I'm an 'elitist PvP asshole'. I don't GvG, I don't HA, I don't TA. I just happen to understand why they get better rewards, and I don't bitch about it.

Besides, PvP doesn't always get better rewards. Let's take a look at some quests.

Random Arenas - 15 coins for winning 5 matches. Additional 30 coins for winning 5 matches in a row. Additional 60 coins for winning 15 matches.

Assault on the Stronghold - 30 coins for completing it. Additional 75 coins for completing it in hard mode.

Assault on the Stronghold can be done in HM in about 10 minutes with h/h. Do you know how long it takes to win 15 RA matches? I can probably do assault at least 6 times in HM before I win 15 RA matches, depending on how lucky I get with teams. Does that seem fair? No, not really. Do you see any PvPers complaining about that? No, you don't. Of course PvP generally does get better rewards, but it's not always that way, which is what I'm trying to point out.

In a perfect world, everything is fair. This isn't a perfect world. Stop expecting everything to be fair.

A11Eur0 · May 12, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23

It depends on the bounty and mission. Some missions in HM are insane. Some bounties in HM are hard to get to, such as Kanaxai without having the correct characters.Try taking your warrior on the Urgoz bounty. Try taking your ranger on the Kanaxai bounty. Won't work.

Arkantos · May 12, 2009, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

It depends on the bounty and mission. Some missions in HM are insane. Some bounties in HM are hard to get to, such as Kanaxai without having the correct characters.Try taking your warrior on the Urgoz bounty. Try taking your ranger on the Kanaxai bounty. Won't work.

It won't work if you try to pug. But that's what pugging harder areas has been like for a long time now.

A11Eur0 · May 12, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It won't work if you try to pug. But that's what pugging harder areas has been like for a long time now.

That's the entire point. The higher end bounties need rewards representative of their difficulty. With the rebirth fix, the Deep is pretty damn hard but HM only gives 105 copper coins and unless you're in a guild that does it regularly, it takes hours to form a group, if at all. You can get PvP rewards much faster and more reliably and they're 2-3 times higher usually.

The reward discrepancy already makes up for the difference in difficulty on average...making PvP quests repeatable is a slap in the face for 80% of the GW playerbase who do PvE primarily.

Let's not forget that the vast majority of the stuff you can get for the coins are only useful for PVE. What do PvP'ers need tomes and storage for?

Alleji · May 12, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

yeah /roll sure took a lot of skill to farm them coins

/roll was disabled in HB before coins became transferable.

Way to fail.

A11Eur0 · May 12, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

/roll was disabled in HB before coins became transferable.

Way to fail.

/rock

red resign

Arkantos · May 12, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

That's the entire point. The higher end bounties need rewards representative of their difficulty. With the rebirth fix, the Deep is pretty damn hard but HM only gives 105 copper coins and unless you're in a guild that does it regularly, it takes hours to form a group, if at all. You can get PvP rewards much faster and more reliably and they're 2-3 times higher usually.

The reward discrepancy already makes up for the difference in difficulty on average...making PvP quests repeatable is a slap in the face for 80% of the GW playerbase who do PvE primarily.

Let's not forget that the vast majority of the stuff you can get for the coins are only useful for PVE. What do PvP'ers need tomes and storage for?

The higher end bounties do have better rewards. I don't know where you got 105 from, but you get 175 coins for completing it. It's more challenging, and it has a better reward. Isn't that how it should work? As for what you're saying about the deep, the same can be said about PvP. Unless you're in a guild that regularly GvG's, it can take a long time to get a team of 8 players.

No, it's not a slap in the face. The PvP quests were already repeatable. ANet just made it more convenient to do so. PvE players have multiple character slots, which means they can have multiple characters to do the quests. Both PvE players and PvP players can repeat the quests, although PvP players have it easier. But as I said before, the world isn't fair, suck it up.

You must not know many PvP players. Many PvP characters PvP on PvE characters. They need tomes and storage as much as PvE players do.

Desert Rose · May 12, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

The reward discrepancy already makes up for the difference in difficulty on average...making PvP quests repeatable is a slap in the face for 80% of the GW playerbase who do PvE primarily.

Quite the opposite.
Most PvP-players have at least one free char-slot to create the class that is needed; so PvP-players could easily repeat the Combat Quest by rerolling their PvP-Char.
On the other hand most PvE-players don't have one free char-slot. By making Combat Quest repeatable for PvE- and PvP-chars alike PvE-players have been given the opportunity to farm them as well.

Foe · May 12, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

This is outrageous.

Way to kill pve anet.

Alleji · May 12, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

/rock

red resign

I farmed the HB quest about 10 times before I got sick of it and haven't seen red resign once.

So yeah.

Arkantos · May 12, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foe

This is outrageous.

Way to kill pve anet.

Please enlighten me as to how adding 2 PvE daily quests 'killed' PvE.

enter_the_zone · May 12, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Someone mentioned tomes...seriously, anyone is ever going to do that? Here's a way that involves much less effort. Goto Lutguardis as a 55hp, n/mo or mo/n, load 55/SV build, kill Byzzr. Repeat until you get Monk elite tome. Sell it, and buy the tome you really want.

Alternatively, just farm a boss for the right kind of tome, most professions have one that is quite easy somewhere.

I'd actually be happy if the Mission reward was 105 coins every second day, and it was something like Assault on the stronghold/blacktide/divinity coast etc.

And that Vengeful Aatxe quest wasn't hard, it just needed a perma...now what's the bet that they nerf SF on Thursday and use that as an excuse..

Imaginos · May 13, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Sorry, let me rephrase.

PvP (excluding HB, unless you're playing against decent people) takes more time and effort than PvE.

Really, people need to stop crying about it being unfair that PvP gets better rewards than PvE. And no, I'm an 'elitist PvP asshole'. I don't GvG, I don't HA, I don't TA. I just happen to understand why they get better rewards, and I don't bitch about it.

Besides, PvP doesn't always get better rewards. Let's take a look at some quests.

Random Arenas - 15 coins for winning 5 matches. Additional 30 coins for winning 5 matches in a row. Additional 60 coins for winning 15 matches.

Assault on the Stronghold - 30 coins for completing it. Additional 75 coins for completing it in hard mode.

Assault on the Stronghold can be done in HM in about 10 minutes with h/h. Do you know how long it takes to win 15 RA matches? I can probably do assault at least 6 times in HM before I win 15 RA matches, depending on how lucky I get with teams. Does that seem fair? No, not really. Do you see any PvPers complaining about that? No, you don't. Of course PvP generally does get better rewards, but it's not always that way, which is what I'm trying to point out.

In a perfect world, everything is fair. This isn't a perfect world. Stop expecting everything to be fair.

I'd love to see the h/h build for that. This mission gave my friend and I some headache when we tried it some months ago.

Now as a counter discussion. While it may take time to do some of the pvp style matches, you have the option of doing them over and over and over. First via delete-repeat and now just repeat and that's not counting the /roll-resign that people were doing with heroes pvp.

People were bragging about farming up 400+coins easily in pvp compared to the poor pve saps who had to do every single mission on every single character, assuming that all their characters had access to said missions and still were not pulling in that amount of coinage.

Fact of the matter is that the rewards for all of this and the costs of the bags and a few other items are way out of whack and this should be better balanced, as myself and many, many others have made suggestions to do.

p.s. i think you meant in your post above that you were not an elitist asshole, which I don't think you come off as

Imaginos · May 13, 2009, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Quite the opposite.
Most PvP-players have at least one free char-slot to create the class that is needed; so PvP-players could easily repeat the Combat Quest by rerolling their PvP-Char.
On the other hand most PvE-players don't have one free char-slot. By making Combat Quest repeatable for PvE- and PvP-chars alike PvE-players have been given the opportunity to farm them as well.

And yet most pve players don't like pvp, nor are most of their characters set up for it, and without an open slot, as you mentioned they could only do them for however many characters they have, assuming they'd want to do pvp in the first place.

FengShuiDove · May 13, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

I'd love to see the h/h build for that. This mission gave my friend and I some headache when we tried it some months ago.

Any standard, functional HM build... all you have to do is prot up the Saurus until he's in and then you can take your time.

I've actually enjoyed repeating the HB quests and a few of the other PvP ones. I think this really makes it MORE fair to PvE-ers who don't have a PvP only character slot to toss around. The PvP only characters have more advantage unless the PvE char is incredibly well equipped, but it evens the playing field.

HawkofStorms · May 13, 2009, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Yeah, assault on the strong hold is pretty easy in HM if you have a bonder.

Arkantos · May 13, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

I'd love to see the h/h build for that. This mission gave my friend and I some headache when we tried it some months ago.

Now as a counter discussion. While it may take time to do some of the pvp style matches, you have the option of doing them over and over and over. First via delete-repeat and now just repeat and that's not counting the /roll-resign that people were doing with heroes pvp.

People were bragging about farming up 400+coins easily in pvp compared to the poor pve saps who had to do every single mission on every single character, assuming that all their characters had access to said missions and still were not pulling in that amount of coinage.

Fact of the matter is that the rewards for all of this and the costs of the bags and a few other items are way out of whack and this should be better balanced, as myself and many, many others have made suggestions to do.

p.s. i think you meant in your post above that you were not an elitist asshole, which I don't think you come off as

2 necros, bonder. Kill the charr at the start, bond/prot armored saurus, rush the base. With some bonds and SY, it's hard to die.

Yes, you can repeat the PvP quests easier than PvE quests, but you can still repeat PvE quests as long as you have different characters. I agree that the rewards for the PvE quests can be shitty, but I don't really think ANet has the time to go through every single mission in the game and every single boss in the game in order to make the rewards better. I do think that some PvE quests should reward more, but I still believe that the PvP quests should have greater rewards.

And yeah, typo.

But thanks for having the decency to actually try and see this from another point of view without throwing names around. Most people around here have a very hard time doing that.

S_Serpent · May 13, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by pansy malfoy

If you knew anything about players in some of the top guilds, you'd know they were PvE characters that have been pimped out for PvP.

Looking at a PvE ele set up for PvP, you'd need 40/40 sets on each element + headgear + staves + spear/shields (a lot of shields, vs elements, +armor, etc.), differently runed armor sets for swapping out... the list goes on.

To sum up: you have no idea what you're babbling on about, other than PvE entitlement fury :P

Actually I do, when I pvp I do it on a pvp char, who are strangly made to pvp with.
Maybe we could have a.net remove pvp chars and lets see the pvp complaints rolling in!

If people refuse to play pvp on a pvp char and want pve char instead its there loss and should not go complain they have not enough storage.

Pve char are to pve with, and pvp to pvp with.

So the fact stays pve still get bad zcoins compared to pvp quest even.

I'm not doing either of them.
I tried at start but its tooo fuccccking grinding, which I refuse to do. I lived 4 years with it and can still live with it after the zcoin update. I'd rather do stuff I enjoy at least.

Even as my main char is holding +- 40 slots off equipment and I need a extra char to even hold the less used armor sets!!!!!!!!!!!!! and yeah I could just go delete the stuff if I didn't wanna buy me that extra storage char.

All I wanted to say is that gw was supposed to be a non-grind game and the zquests are just the newest additions that proves its a GRIND game.

Oh and if those fancy pvp'ers want there fancy pve gear you can mostly unlock it with b-faction too and even more skins that are not accessible in pve.

oh and what needs more support you think pvp or pve for critical mass! pvp has limited outposts but just think on the amounts of pve outpost where newbies wanna make groups and only find deserted outposts.
The pve side is much more spread out then the pvp side. So why on earth would the zcoins balance then be so much faster for the pvp side then the pve side.

/endrant

paK0 · May 13, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

the thing is you dont need a group for most of the pve stuff

heroes and henchies take care of most of the things by themselfes, even the harder ones are quite easy to do

like that kathadrax thing or so, i never did it before, nor did my bro, he packed discorway, i packed a nice roj and dual bl, looking for a map on the net and then blasting through

if i compare that to finding a ha or gvg team if you dont have a rank this was ridiculously easy

Burst Cancel · May 13, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

For the past two years or so, the definition of "grind" appears to be "anything I, personally, don't want to do (anymore)". This goes beyond moving the goalposts - these are goalposts that move themselves.

The zquest reward imbalance isn't a PvP vs. PvE issue; it's more that some quests simply are valued correctly. Zquests like JQ and RA take quite a bit of time - even if you're good at them - due to the randomness factor, botting, leeching, etc. Yet, their rewards are quite poor when compared to either PvP or PvE quests. At the same time, there are PvE Zquests like Curse of the Nornbear, which give extremely high rewards for the effort and time invested.

The other thing that needs to be taken into account with PvP awards is that PvP matches are zero-sum games. Every win you rack up for your zquest is a loss that contributes nothing to your opponent's zquest. Furthermore, having to beat other players, whose levels of skill, builds, and tactics vary constantly and wildly, is a fundamentally different requirement from beating a mission, which is invariant.